Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Monday, September 26, 2011

Eurogamer. Post-mortem.

The expo is over. Obviously there were more visitors at weekend than on Thursday or Friday. The effectiveness of our participation is still to be deternined and analysed, however at this point personally I doubt that we should come back here next year (though I wish we would come, one more chance to visit this great city at least :) ).

The majority of players had not heard about the game earlier (and even less who actually played), many had difficulties with PC controls (the UK seems bo be totally console country), understanding the basic concept of the game (UI, battle itself, repairs and ammo), teamkilling. Yeah, the learning curve in WoT is quite steep.

Still I consider this experience to be valuable in terms of further tailoring the game according to the needs of newbies.

Would like to thank everyone who visited our stand during these 4 days, was nice meeting you indeed. Hopefully, see you all next year.

PS: will be back to office midweek with the recent news from development side of things. Keep your questions until then. Thanks.

105 comments:

  1. Overlord! I tried to meet you today, but on all 3-4 occasions when I asked the staff, they could not locate you :(

    wanted to thank you for excellent communication with the playerbase! :)

    I am not sure how well known WoT is in the UK gaming circles, I am guessing not very. That could attribute to most people not knowing about the game before seeing your stand. The WG team did a pretty good job explaining to players how to play the game and what it is all about, but I could tell that they were quite tired today from having to deal with countless number of newbies :P

    hope to see you guys again soon

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hi! And sorry about not being at the stand for some time today. Had some side buziness. :) And thanks for the support. It is always welcome.

    See you.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think that part of the learning curve to be dealt with is that repairs and rearming should be auto on. Of course there should be an option to turn them off for the more advanced users :)

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  4. Game is great, majority of players are jerks

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  5. I hope you will have such an event in Hamburg/Germany soon. I will slap all your staff for letting us wait for so long with the tracers..

    PLEASE remove/restrict client skins for 7.0 update (will be lookin ugly anyway) and bring back the tracers, i beg you :(

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  6. Some games should be left outside of the "lowest common denominator"-rule... You can only bolster your short term statistic boasting with that approach...

    Guiness records do not necessarily equate to long and profitable business.

    Let the dumbass drones play their rock bands and singstars to the bitter end... They truly deserve games like that!

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  7. Ben said: "I think that part of the learning curve to be dealt with is that repairs and rearming should be auto on. Of course there should be an option to turn them off for the more advanced users :)"

    That. It would make life much easier for new players.

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  8. It surprises me that the learning curve would be considered steep.

    @ Lord Azaghul
    You're wrong.
    Consider how many that do *not* resort to name calling. Thirty players in a standard match in a game as tense as this and we should perhaps be pleasantly surprised if there is no name calling in specific match.

    There are rude and inconsiderate players for sure, but certainly not many.

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  9. Hi OverLord, did try to meet you @ the expo but failed :(

    i wanted to request in person to the dev's the option of adding a "sell garage slot option" i have more slots than i need right now and i'm sure adding the option to sell a garage slot would give you some extra credits or gold to help with grinds.

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  10. I was in there but could'nt find you (unluckly). I've spoke with guys but with every question there was same answer 'sick, sorry theres no Ovi here' or 'you can find a lots of info on our forum'. Damn i know it well. :D
    No offence, it was really fun to be there anyway.

    cheErs

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  11. Cool, now maybe you guys can get back to work on the thing that's making you money for the people paying your checks, who are us, and finally listen to our wants/needs out of the game or we're out.
    - Tracers
    - Limit number of arty
    - Fixed american heavy line
    - and finally, and most importantly, MORE GAME MODES.

    Instead, here's a couple tier 3 tanks, that'll hold you over until mid-2012.

    ReplyDelete
  12. No Overlord the "learning curve is NOT steep" in this game.

    Quite the opposite.

    The number of challenged individuals, you know, the "you are special" kind its at fault here.

    The average IQ score is getting lower every year.

    Sad but true.

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  13. @ Overlord:
    When will be the Next Special Event like "Market Garden"? Why there was a "Victory Day Event" but not a "WW II Starting Event"?

    ReplyDelete
  14. they say, that a start of a massacre won't need an event....

    somewhere/how they are right...

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  15. > The average IQ score is getting lower every year

    Sad but true. Do NOT "dumb" down the game please. If necessary, offer a "trainer" mode for newbies. That's an entirely different thing, and a welcome one.

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  16. In this case it makes more sense why the UK Tank Tree will be introduced long after the French tree and other stuff in 2012. WoT is much more successful in Central Europe than in the UK.

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  17. The learning ... what? This is a joke. WOT is plug and play. Nowhere close to a simulation. Making it easier makes more kids join the game. Less players more skill. I've invested almost 400€ and will not play with people not taking 30 minutes time to study instructions.

    Maybe you should have added British tank tree before going to an expo there. I wouldn't take a look at a game without German tanks, too.

    ReplyDelete
  18. +1 for auto repair and ammo fill at default! but can turn off. I'm sure WG could make a downloadable console version of this game if they so wished. Training mode would help people understand basics of repair etc.

    Training should be drive set route zoom into target, fire show tracks damaged then fire and kill. Drive to other base and cap!! basic but effective.

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  19. Not sure about the learning curve, i did not find it difficult to learn the interface and basic game rules. The rest of the game does take some time to learn but that gives the game some depth you dont want to make that aspect any easier perhaps add in a tutorial componenet for new players may be a good idea introduce basic tactics. As for the event itself i have never heard too much about the show i am an active mmo gamer plus other non mmo games but i dont have consoles, as you say may be the wrong event for us non console players.

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  20. Hahaha, talking like console gamers are sub-human. Guess what, this isn't a tough game to understand. This game looks like a console game first off, it's controls are more fitting to a console game secondly, and it's a very small content game that could be on the PSN or XBL as a download. This game pushes no visual barriers, and the old consoles can run this game probably better than what some people seem to play this on their junk PCs.

    This game is so simple, it could be on the 3DS (let alone Vita), and it wouldn't "amaze" me that the machine can handle it.

    BTW - There's programs out there to let you use the DS3 and 360 controller with whatever PC game you want, I'm sure people do just fine with it. This game isn't SC2 or a real-MMO where you need tons of buttons for abilities/macros.

    People probably didn't "get it" because of lack of communication skills, as you have presented here, and on the forums. Simple, as, that.

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  21. This was a triumph, I'm making a note here: huge success...
    :)
    not really

    ReplyDelete
  22. Surely if you feel game is not known very well here you should do more marketing in the UK?

    The UK has a massive playerbase which you could tap? Maybe some more x5 weekends will help? ;)

    On a serious note, I have seen hardly any marketing for the game in the UK. In most of the magazines the game is scoring high 80s - low 90s yet the review is kept to the rear pages and not given much of a feature. Retail Boxes might help, as would TV commercials (since most of us in the UK are slobs who never leave the sofa)

    ReplyDelete
  23. hi overlord just a few comments for you to look over

    "I doubt that we should come back here next year"

    i really think you should return next year not only would it bring myself back people who were not able to attend this year might be able to go next year.

    "the UK seems bo be totally console country"

    yes the uk may be a more console orientated country but we pc gamers game harder than any consoler ever will.

    "the learning curve in WoT is quite steep"

    Wrong the learning curve is practically invisible, granted you have morons that cant drive thier tanks because they wont watch a tutorial or there are many children playing.

    "further tailoring the game according to the needs of newbies"

    Yes i agree a driving tutorial is needed becuse some people just plain cant drive the tanks possibly even and basic tactics tutorial.

    But you should not forget your current player base which in my opinion is rather annoyed with the game at the moment.

    ReplyDelete
  24. It should be noted that Eurogamer was ticket access only and was sold out for the weekends well before I saw any information about it here on WoT or anywhere else for that matter. Possibly the Console companies did more advertising and you may have encountered a less PC savvy player base.

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  25. you know... going to a country that never saw tank battles on its territory is not going to get you many enthusiasts. go to any continental europe country and see that there are much more players. tanks are part of their history. UK will be drawn to WOWP, try with that one if you really must go back there.

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  26. Your game has a steep learning curve? Impossible... I jumped straight away... it's so easy to kill in your game even with the 3 inicial tanks... and the research tree is obvious... Stick to it and forget the stupid console players... that's way they are console players: they just want to put the disc and play there platform games. You have the best online game since counter strike AND IT'S FREE!!!!! YOU ARE THE BEST!!!

    ReplyDelete
  27. the game itself is great - really addictive and fun.

    the problem is the unintuitive interface - problems working out what bonus applies, difficulties upgrading tanks and transferring crew - that is where the curve is

    ReplyDelete
  28. @ Some poster who said Console Gamers.

    Please don't use those 2 words together in the same sentence... it's insulting to Gamers.

    ReplyDelete
  29. heres a thought, make the game better and more people will play. Until you bring in more game styles its the same old same old every day....how about make more changes to the maps that way with each patch we have to learn new play styles...as it is anyone who has played for over a month knows the maps and tactics

    ReplyDelete
  30. Hey Overlord,

    If you guys won't go back to the UK next year could you come down to Australia instead?

    I know it is a big ask and a bloody long way but,
    there is a very hardcore player base that would love to meet and talk with you guys.

    Anyway great job and keep up the good work!

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  31. Lord Azaghul said...

    Game is great, majority of players are jerks
    September 26, 2011 2:46 AM

    That INCLUDES YOU!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Just your average idiot brit's

    I'm English and i find it shameful to hear that so many so called "Gamer's" had so much trouble picking up the controls for a PC game (of which is the simplest to game to control on a PC that i have ever seen)

    Hopefully more game companies will cease console priority games and make games more dedicated to the PC (Like Battlefield 3)

    Because at the moment everyone thinks:
    "PC Gamer = WoW Nerd"

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  33. EVE Has a steep learning curve, not WoT.

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  34. WoT has no learning curve, you can see that all the time in random battles
    every noob can buy a Lowe and play it like a loltraktor

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  35. Tell us about the M103, something we want to hear about....

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  36. Thats what happens when you put a gaming expo in Freshers week...

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  37. Steep learningcurve, i think not. It has a 10 minutes threshold but from then on, you need the IQ of, well the brittish :) to figure this game out. I still ove it though but you can't be serious about the learningcurve

    And please do not forget to buff the VK4502 ausf A. Its puts the VK back in verry crappy. Well, sort of.

    Overlord please tell me you are at least looking into it.

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  38. Are UK players really that bad. This has to be the easiest learning curve of any competitive game I've ever played.

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  39. its not the uk pc gamers that are bad its thoses pesky console games that think they can play the hardcore stuff and fail misrably giveing us real gamers a bad name -.-

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  40. i was suprised to hear that so many gamers couldnt grasp the controls and found the learning curve too steep. sure there are things you might discover after a few hundred battles but the basic gameplay is simple. then again im from the days of having to pick up and read a manual before playing a game. people these days tend to want instant gratification and have the attention spans of goldfish they arent willing to put in the time

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  41. After playing EVE-Online for a few years, any other online game is piss easy :P

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  42. Unfortunately events like this held in the centre of London make it hard for players from the North of England to get down to you. As a member of one of the longest running clans in Europe we find the console statement surprising. We only heard of the event via your blog, to late to arrange to attend.

    No doubt this will confirm your policy to launch French Tanks before British; who pioneered the tank. And as rumoured not include the Royal Navy in WoB and Royal Airforce in WoWp launches.

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  43. The only thing that could give them trouble is not knowing where "weak spots" are on the tanks, thus they'd bounce a lot of shots.

    Please don't come out here and say "they must be console gamers since they didn't like the controls". I'd hate to punch you in the pride-box, but your game is not complicated at all. You don't need numerous macros and hotkeys. And the movement and aiming of this game, it probably would translate really-really well on a console controller.

    Step up and take it like a man. Oh, and BTW, these console gamers are what many like to access, as look how freely they throw money around. Look how many copies of CoD sell each time. They're just as much "gamer" sitting on a couch and in front of a 50" plasma as you are hiding behind your 24" LED-LCD and kb/m.

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  44. So Overlord, How about coming to the US and having a few expo's? You'll get a whole lot more out of it as the game is very popular here. The US and Canada would love to have you guys here for a few weeks traveling around and showing off the game and I'd love to meet you guys and get some swag.(Free stuff)

    Slippery
    NA server

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  45. Q: If you guys won't go back to the UK next year could you come down to Australia instead?

    A: Thanks for the invitation, however I think it's hardly possible. :)

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  46. Q: Tell us about the M103, something we want to hear about....

    A: The plan is still the same: official release timelime - Q1 2012. However there is a chance it will come out this year.

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  47. Q: And as rumoured not include the Royal Navy in WoB and Royal Airforce in WoWp launches.

    A: Great Britain has always been a great naval country. We can't help but include Royal Navy as primary tech tree.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Q: So Overlord, How about coming to the US and having a few expo's? You'll get a whole lot more out of it as the game is very popular here. The US and Canada would love to have you guys here for a few weeks traveling around and showing off the game and I'd love to meet you guys and get some swag.(Free stuff)

    A: Already visited E3 and PAX this year.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Come to Hungary...want free stuff!:D

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  50. I would not say that the UK is a console zone! Hardcore players are def. PC Gamers here and long may we rule :)

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  51. Im british and everyone that i know hasnt used joystick controls in a while!

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  52. Austin TX!
    Lots of software development here.
    Tech heavy business sector (lots of PC techies).
    Ft Hood near by (big tank base).

    Maybe you can work in with reenactments that are held at Camp Mabry:

    http://www.texasmilitaryforcesmuseum.org/

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  53. 1. you put a french tech tree in before the brits
    2. looks like wowp dosent have a release brit tree (maybe im wrong i hope for brit players sake)
    3. the tickets are sold out (so maybe more console gamers bought tickets)
    4. it took part in freaking freshers week where any 18-30 year old is sloshed off their faces

    you realy surprised there werent many people?

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  54. Well the reality is that the US realy dosent have many Computer/console game Expos, (GDC, E3, and PAX are about it) there is one in Mexico and Canada. but. . .
    That said,I Imaging WoB has some iteresting problems Vis the Tec Tree due to the Washington Naval Treaties.

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  55. about console problem. Overlord is wrong problem not about consoles problem about tank driving. I already saw this problem when my friend try wot @ first time. But this is really natural thingy.
    No need afraid. on the other hand you must afraid about old players leaving to game. Because WG dont listen players. %99 agree about game mod 0 dmg track hits op arties soviet bias sucks visibility system... Why WG spend resources on this less important expos? Srsly why? You cannot sell this half finished game to players with out shame....

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  56. Well, Eurogamer is primarly a console site, despite covering PC stuff.

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  57. There is no "console problem", rather just a problem with "world of tanks".

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  58. dude, dont avoid my question:
    Tell us news and ETA for Tracers. And tell us on how much percent you currently are with the tracers

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  59. Learning curve? What learning curve? Admittedly I've years (decades, actually) of simulation play behind me, and I'm quite a lot older and more experienced than the average console player, but WoT is among the very easiest games to pick up and start playing. The controls and UI are much simpler than the average console shooter. I suspect you were dealing more with a lack of interest in the subject matter at that particular convention.

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  60. An improvement for the interface: A button to send all your crevvmembers of a tank to barracks at once. At training all at once. Of couse it should be still possible to send single crevvmembers to the barracks.

    My 'double u key' is broken. :(

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  61. "Q: If you guys won't go back to the UK next year could you come down to Australia instead?

    A: Thanks for the invitation, however I think it's hardly possible. :) "

    Perhaps you'd like to spit on the $700 I've spent so far?

    Just because you haven't looked into traveling to Australia doesn't mean it's not possible. Perhaps Tanitha can slap you around and beat some sense into you.

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  62. Steep learning curve?!?!?! OK, tactics is learnt (in real life) over the years and one needs "a gift" to be really good but please, don't tell me WoT has a steep learning curve! Try EvE Online for a learning curve...

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  63. Read the forums about Panzer IV bug. It's human to implement bugs and also nice to fix it on the next day but don't act like it didn't happen.

    Unprofessional support and CM.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Hi Overlord!
    I dont't know if it was posted anywhere before and therefore I apologize if it was, but, why not introducing radnom battles with only requirement of 55% victories or more, another with 50% and 45%, or similar?

    What do you think of that? Is there any chance to introduce something like that?

    ReplyDelete
  65. Hi Overlord, We ever going to see WoT t shirts for sale online?

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  66. I have to ask this , any chance of a Free for All battle? It could be pretty funny.

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  67. So we have an answer for WOB, but will there be a starting british tree for WoWp?

    Maybe WOT will become more famous in GB if you would add a british tree?!

    ReplyDelete
  68. Overlord:

    - Any plans for comming to belgium.
    - Any chance of buffing the VK4502ausf A, forum and me kinda agree that it is the weakest T8 tank

    ReplyDelete
  69. Part of the issue is that the Eurogamer Expo is going to be visited mainly by console gamers if it was anything like the time I visited as many of the games on show were on consoles.

    I also think that the WoT team should have put more effort into getting the UK tanks into the game before showing at a UK games show considering how much of a part the UK played in WW2. If you didn't have the German/US tanks in game and showed in Germany/US I'm sure you'd get a similar reaction.

    You'd be better off showing at specialist shows like the tank museum you did as you'd not only get people who are already interested in tanks but the audience is more likely to want to play WoT than you console gaming kiddies. (And yes, I do have a console as well so no hate from me).

    Marketing in the UK of WoT has been lacking of late with the only things I can remember seeing some time ago (free mag with PC Gamer and CD with PC Gamer).

    ReplyDelete
  70. I agree with rock, any chance of a gear store for hats and t-shirts etc?

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  71. I'd like to report a bug, the game's not fun anymore. Fix it. Instead of worrying about stupid non-sense like you have, get the game modes out already. You're really taking us for a ride by not caring one bit about us, and those modes. I myself, as well as I'm sure others, will return the favor when your new products hit the market, with closed wallets.

    ReplyDelete
  72. I can see why people are so eager to get the tracers back, maybe they were some of those using that exploit, that got tracers deactivated in the first place.
    I myself want them back, but WG has to make sure that they wont be easily violated like they were with just a few flash's command alterations, stuff has to resort to the flash only for the animation, and even that "order" has to be encrypted and/or sent to a side line language code, one that without it simply wont work, and that should be attached to string calls under other strings and also encrypted so that no flash smart-ass exploits it again that easily...I mean whatever you do yes pls bring them back but...make sure it will be safe...cuz there's already too much BS going on as it is...other than that fine job WG, fine job, cheers Overlord!

    ReplyDelete
  73. Yeah, im sure its a hard if it took half a year. Arty players love it this way, just sitting and shooting over whole map with ridiculously flying shells shitting destruction all over the place.

    They released T5 light tanks just to shut our mouth but hey WG, it aint fixed anything. TRACERS ASAP!

    ReplyDelete
  74. Well, this game is dead. Battlefield 3 is starting up with it's beta this week, and will be released in full next month. Hope WG enjoyed the income when they had it, while abusing their userbase not caring one bit about what they wanted. People are going to remember how they were treated like shit with WoWP and WoBS when they're released. Hope OL bought a nice cardboard box to sleep in.

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  75. If you did your usual of playing loud music and having half naked girls draped over cramped PC's and Lap Tops then you have not done your marketing research very well.
    The UK is a more reserved country where the people are suspicious of bling and shiny stuff. Console have taken over but thats because no-one makes many PC games anymore.
    Most of the PC gamers in the UK are older and have higher expectations from a game and WOT will struggle to make progress when you don't even feature our tanks. No point in marketing ti us when you don't even have what we want.

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  76. Q: Read the forums about Panzer IV bug. It's human to implement bugs and also nice to fix it on the next day but don't act like it didn't happen.

    Unprofessional support and CM.

    A: I will see to it.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Q: Hi Overlord, We ever going to see WoT t shirts for sale online?

    A: Yes, definitely. It's a matter of time.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Q: So we have an answer for WOB, but will there be a starting british tree for WoWp?

    A: Most likely - yes.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Q: Hope OL bought a nice cardboard box to sleep in.

    A: Yeah, I grabbed a big one from 100 inch TV to live together with the friends.

    ReplyDelete
  80. I'm German and I'm happy to see the full German tree being implemented soon. However I'd rather waited for the E Series to be included in Q2/12 and the second TD line even later but have at least a small British tree instead in 2011.
    It would have been possible and fair. The balancing is not an excuse.

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  81. A: The plan is still the same: official release timelime - Q1 2012. However there is a chance it will come out this year.

    You're fucking kidding, right ? The T-34 is a completely useless tank until you lost 900 matches to get the second gun and you want us to wait 6-12 month for you to fix it ?

    If only you where working on more important things like fixing the matchmaking, limiting number of arti per match and fixing the vision system. But no: you're on adding horns and (gold-paid) cammo...

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  82. I did 623 games in Usa T34 to get it Elite, can't see why people keep moaning about it! :oP

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  83. Overlord said...
    Q: Hope OL bought a nice cardboard box to sleep in.

    A: Yeah, I grabbed a big one from 100 inch TV to live together with the friends.

    First of all, there's no 100" TVs available to the masses. Second, you have no friends. :P

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  84. well, i know at least 2 guys from my clan who are from the UK, and they arent too bad, but i'd guess that if you are more acquainted with joysticks / gamepads and the likes, the 'basic' WASD-control scheme will be awkward, but it will be in any game

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  85. Hiding of important parameters and using wide variety and steep range of randoms are not helping the learning curve. As I can see actually very small part of the players are aware about the (public) game mechanics.

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  86. alighierian
    "the 'basic' WASD-control scheme will be awkward, but it will be in any game"

    how the frak is WASD complicated ?
    only a teenager with the iq of a dead slug wouldnt be able to handle the controls... well either tht or an 80 year old with arthritus

    ReplyDelete
  87. Calling it World of Tanks doesn't help, Tank Clans not Tank Divisions, it's not World of Warcraft...(thankfully)

    Least I have a Churchill, even if it's Russian and not the UK type, would like the UK line sooner rather than another load of made up prototypes that never saw action, makes you wonder if anyone will be able to fight in the historical battles....

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  88. Overlord: "the UK seems bo be totally console country"

    How can you come to that conclusion based on an EXPO that only 0.4 of the UK's gamers attended.

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  89. Overlord, you keep saying that there is a possibility that the M103 "might" be released sooner than is planned
    Does this mean the tank is complete and ready for implementation/testing? and What is delaying it further?

    ReplyDelete
  90. "Anonymous said...
    Overlord: "the UK seems bo be totally console country"

    How can you come to that conclusion based on an EXPO that only 0.4 of the UK's gamers attended."

    Damage control. That's it and that's all. You expect them to say "well, it is clunky, but you get used to it".

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  91. Come to Australia, I'll love to meet you guys !

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  92. Yes, please come to Australia. I'd like you to answer the questions in person instead of asking them and having them deleted from the Dev Q&A thread without even an attempt to answer or explain why no answer will be given.

    I think you'll be busy for a while....

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  93. The UK is not console only. Sheesh - talk about generalisations based on a few days worth of people showing up at a stand.

    Wanna know why not many people have heard of the game here - Marketing, or rather a total lack of. Spend some of that gold profit on some decent advertisement.

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  94. You can also try to create an image to help improve the effectiveness of their memory. The easiest way to accomplish this is to create a scene in your mind what you are trying to remember

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  95. Any reason why US 105mm gun on T32 and T34 is nerfed?

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  96. "Yeah, the learning curve in WoT is quite steep."

    What!?

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  97. To get more UK PC gamers you need to get some exposure on Rock Paper Shotgun so far I've only seen one article about WOT on it. RPS has a large number of readers and I know its articles affect a lot of people I for one wouldn't have bought half the games I have if it wasn't for RPS.

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  98. Overlord, Get your butt to Australia. We got players here too

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  99. Russians couldn't win Cold War which explains OP of their tanks ..

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  100. Will my hard earned xp go automatic over to the new M103 when it comes? Would be a BIG pain if not.

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  101. This game is so dead, so beat. I haven't given any money to these devs for a while now, and don't plan to in the near future with the way they treat us like rubbish, and to add insult to injury, they act oblivious why they're not expanding their userbase, and why vets leave. Ignorant devs that let a shred of early success get to their heads. They think they're the big boys now like Blizzard, or upcoming champs like Riot. They're not. They're amateurs that got lucky. And to treat us like rubbish? Really? You're not celebrities that can get away with everything. Remember that when you're getting your resumes together trying to get a new job.

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  102. the guy how points out freshers week is right. the vast majority of anyone who might come, will be too busy get wasted. i bet if you went to any country during freshers week the number of visitors would be down!

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  103. "This game is so dead, so beat. I haven't given any money to these devs for a while now, and don't plan to in the near future"

    Ok then move on cubby, no one is going to miss you. They've got your money, either play or shut up. The game is free to play, you're entitle to nothing. And if more arrogant self-entitled "vets" like yourself leave, then great! The rest of us don't have to read your crap. Bottom line, and correct me if im wrong: Nobody cares, pal!

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    1. Think about what you'd like to do with the bike. Will it be strictly for exercise and recreation?
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